underexposed or dark?

[eddie]

I know this is going to sound like a stupid question....whatever.
Can anyone tell me how different film shot during the day, underexposed, will be to film shot at night?
If I shoot day for night (by underexposing) assuming street lights and so on are visible, is there a quality Ill be missing than if I shot the same scene at night time with a reasonably fast film, wide shutter etc???

I mean I can visualise over exposed film, but not really underexposed film. What does it look like??

Thanks

[Alex]

Actually, it's the farthest thing from a stupid question imagineable.

Although there is no short answer.

I usually see this effect in rolling pasture woodsy type of settings.

I can't recall it be used too much in city shots.

Basically, your mileage will vary as to the effectiveness of day for night...but you'll probably get better results in the country.



[This message has been edited by Alex (edited February 05, 2001).]

[Actor]

The best way to answer questions like this is to experiment. The cheap way is with a 35mm still camera. You need one that lets you control shutter speed and aperture and that has a threaded lens that lets you attach a filter. TTL light metering and SLR are nice but not absolutely necessary.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Use reversal film, especially if you are going to shoot reversal. If you shoot negative then the lab's automatic equipment is going to try and correct what it sees as your mistakes when they make your prints, and you are not going to see what you are looking for.
<LI>The standard formula for shooting day for night is to stop down two stops and use a blue filter such as an 80A. Put the filter on the lens, adjust your exposure so that it's correct, then back off two stops.
<LI>Set the camera's shutter speed to match the shutter of your movie camera. With my Canon Scoopic this is 1/60 sec at 24 fps. If you don't know your movie camera's shutter angle then assume 180 degrees.
<LI>Take a "correct" frame without the filter for comparison. Also try frames at 1, 3 and even 4 stops down. 4 stops down should be close to absolutely black with nothing visible.
<LI>Street lamps and car headlights are hell when shooting day-for-night. Even if you can get somebody to turn the street lights on they are not going to look bright enough.
<LI>A good example of day-for-night is the night chase scenes in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. The lanterns which the pursuing posse are carrying are actually sun lamps which the actors are deliberately pointing at the camera. Rent it.
<LI>Night-for-night has it's own problems, one of which is that the background tends to be pitch black unless you illuminate it, an expensive undertaking. If the night scenes in Butch Cassidy had been shot at night then the pursuing sun lamps would have been just bright dots agains a black field. Shooting day-for-night lets you see the outline of the terrain.
<LI>Another problem with night-for-night is that it is difficult to light your subjects in the foreground. Too much and you lose the illusion that they are not being illuminated. Too little and you can't see what you want the audience to see.[/list]


[This message has been edited by Actor (edited February 05, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Actor (edited February 05, 2001).]

[Nigel]

It all depends on what stock you shoot. I don't like shooting day for night it is to "Lone Ranger"--however it can be done with mild to medium results. Good Luck

[eddie]

thanks for answering, I think sometimes you (I) just need a bit of encouragement to experiment. Just to make sure Im not totally on the wrong track.

Ill definatley check out Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

You learn a new thing everyday fur sure.

Cheers